“Feminists have destroyed Western Culture”…REALLY???

thinking-through-it-all

 

by Kenneth Justice

~ “Kenneth, basically it comes down to the fact that women are working who don’t need to be working. They are taking jobs away from men who need them, and they are pushing men out of the workplace. Women are the ones who should be raising children at home, and if it wasn’t for the feminists, Western Culture would be much better off” he said.

That is what someone told me last week, and while it might seem a bit extreme considering it’s the 21st century, oddly enough there are a LOT of people who subscribe to that position. Have women contributed to an overall decline in Western Culture? Has the feminist movement hurt our society and put a ton of men out of work? Did the 20th century women’s right’s movement forever plague Western Culture with more bad than good?

The history of equality between the genders is a bit complex. Prior to Industrialization, it is true that in most Western countries, women did not have the right to vote, to hold public office, to attend a college or university, and in some places a woman did not even have to the right to testify in a trial. Women were definitely not “equal” in the eyes of the law.

However, in the pre-industrialized world, where the masses of people lived and breathed agriculture; equality of the genders were a bit more level back then. A farm could not exist without a woman in the pre-20th century world. Women were needed, not only to produce offspring (help for the farm) but to function as an integral component of keeping the farm in full production.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not suggesting women were entirely “equal” prior to the 20th century. After all, in most cases women did not have the right to choose who they would marry, and in a some countries, practically speaking women were nothing more than glorified slaves. Nonetheless, because of the way a farm functioned in 18th and 19th agrarian culture, if a dude wanted his farm to run efficiently it was in his best interests to treat his wife with as much decency and respect owed to her, since she was pulling her fair share in running the farm.

It was after Industrialization and technology when agricultural slowly died away as the main industry for the Western World that women’s roles became more relegated to the concept of what we know today as a “homemaker”. It’s no wonder then why the gender wars of the 20th century took place; because all of the new jobs that were created through Industrialization and technology were highly sought after by men who know longer could work in agriculture, and they felt that women were competing against them in a way they had never experienced in the previously agrarian society.

Thus, if we really get down to the nitty gritty; it’s possible that the feminist movement of the 20th century would never have occurred if not for Industrialization. It was the very inventions and technology of the 20th century that began to prompt a war between the genders that had never before been truly realized.

So here we are in the 21st century and people still believe that women should be second class citizens, and relegated to living at home. Such people clearly do not understand that it is no long 1859.

—) We no longer live in an era where it takes all day to wash the clothes with a washboard down by the creek; doing the wash these days takes a matter of minutes, all by the push of a button

—) It no longer takes all afternoon to prepare meat or toil in the garden for the evening dinner; we merely stop at the grocer and pick up the produce in a matter of minutes

—) Even the long walk to the market that many women made in days gone by has now been replaced by a quick couple minute drive thanks to the invention of automobiles and public transportation

The truth of the matter is simple; we no longer live in the 18th century. Technology has separated us from our ancestors in a way they could never have imagined. To relegate women to living in the home and spending the day staring at the walls simply makes no sense. There are not enough chores to be done in the home anymore. Of course there are always exceptions, and if you are one of those families with 19 children and counting, well, you’ve got an entirely different set of problems then I am addressing.

It’s also interesting to note that while many people associate the divorce rate with a shift in cultural values; very few people tend to associate the divorce rate with the change in the way we live our lives. After all, in the pre-industrialized world, divorce mean devastating consequences to the farm. Where would a divorced woman live in the 18th century? What would Farmer Bob do if his wife left him? The farm would go to ruin; one man could not keep a farm going back then, it was simply impossible.

With the rise of Industrialization and technology, you no longer needed a partner to live with you to get your house chores done. What used to take all day, now only took a few minutes after work. Suddenly, the concept of marriage and what it means to us has changed dramatically without many of us even realizing this had even occurred.

Where marriage used to be about a joint partnership in survival; marriage now meant two independent people uniting in some kind of commonality, and if the two people (or if one of the people) begins to feel that they are not all that intellectually or spiritually connected to the other, divorce suddenly becomes a lucrative option. Why stay married to someone if you don’t “need” them, is what many people now believe. In the pre-industrialized world; you simply needed the other person to survive.

Back in the day I spent a number of days working on the farm of a good friend of mine. I could see how agrarian work can be very satisfying. Unfortunately, technology has given us the ability to feed our entire society by the production of a handful of people and machines. Working outside of the house gives a greater sense of purpose to millions of women, and to take that away from them would hurt the very spirit that lies within their hearts.

Sure, many women (and men) still stay at home all day. Some of them have small children, some of them do not. Many of these stay-at-home parents have become bloggers; technology has given them the ability to connect with the outside world while still being at home.

Has feminization ruined Western Culture? I don’t think so.

Just a few thoughts as I sipped my coffee,

Kenneth

p.s. If you would like to join us tonight on Culture Monk TV LIVE at 6pm central / 7 pm eastern email me at culturemonk@gmail.com; we still have slots open for two more guests. Tonight we discuss the question of whether or not feminists have ruined Western Culture.



Categories: Culture & Society

Tags: , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

33 replies

  1. Wow. This was good. I am from a farm and currently living and working on it. I am single so can’t relate to the marriage part, but this sentence hit me: “Working outside of the house gives a greater sense of purpose to millions of women, and to take that away from them would hurt the very spirit that lies within their hearts.”

    That is so true. We need a job. I enjoy working around the farm, but if I didn’t have that and had to stay home all day without a project to work on, I would feel incredibly restless and beat down. Watching old movies, the thought of how important women were to the pioneer times has occurred a lot. Women were helping bring the hay in, put out barn fires, encourage their children to not give up and to work hard, to provide a comfortable home in the frontier. So after seeing scenes like that, I wonder, why are we put down so much nowadays? Not that women didn’t have a fair amount of trouble before this, as you mentioned, but we talk so much about finding love. However, men put women down, and women put men down. We’re disrespecting each other like crazy. We need both sexes; men have strengths many women do not, and vice versa.

    If I get married, I want to be in partnership with that person, working alongside him (not necessarily in a career). The farm brings that opportunity all the time. I can definitely see how a change in how we live has brought about changes in relationships.

  2. Even I prefer to work alongside though it depends on who is the partner.

  3. Wow. Great article, Kenneth! Can’t wait to see the show about this topic! 😉

  4. Thank you SO MUCH for this. Dear men who think we should stay in the kitchen – why the fuck don’t YOU do it? You can’t bear children, but you can sure as hell cook for them and clean up after them. Just as most jobs outside the home can be done by people of any gender, household chores are pretty gender-neutral too! The argument you cite falls down for that reason if no other.

    Regarding divorce, people also seem to forget that in ye olde times, it was also much harder to *get* a divorce. Correct me if I’m wrong, but my impression is that the church used to take that “till death” bit quite seriously.

  5. Oh, Kenneth! I don’t envy you the backlash from saying a stay at home on can stay home and state at the walls. You are about to get bloody trounced, my friend!

    • OMG. My spelling sucks when I type with my thumbs before I put in contacts…

    • Callie, I stayed at home with my kids from the moment I went on mat leave with the first until the second went to kindergarten. That was over a period of 7 years, and I agree with you — there is no staring at walls being a stay-at-home-mom — *with kids at home*. I do agree however that wall-staring (or napping, or soap-opera watching) could become an issue once both are in school. I personally find washing up the breakfast dishes, doing the laundry and running a couple of errands, making supper, does not fill a day. As much as I like my time off, I got restless at home too much, and am much happier now that I’m working again.

  6. I question why this person devalues women. I question why a woman’s worth is judged on what she produces. I wonder if there is a better world where all people can fulfill themselves in a way that expresses love for the planet. A woman’s thoughts as she sips her water.

  7. I have often pondered this subject. While I certainly disagree with the statement that feminism is a destructive force, I do often wonder what my life would be like if men still worked while women stayed home. For most families, two incomes are necessary. I think the decline of our civilization has more to do with greed and political corruption.

  8. “Where marriage used to be about a joint partnership in survival; marriage now meant two independent people uniting in some kind of commonality, and if the two people (or if one of the people) begins to feel that they are not all that intellectually or spiritually connected to the other, divorce suddenly becomes a lucrative option. Why stay married to someone if you don’t “need” them, is what many people now believe. In the pre-industrialized world; you simply needed the other person to survive.”

    Dude, you are so right. Culture has changed in so many ways and old ideas of marriage and gender roles simply don’t work at all the way they used to.

    That being said, I wish we all did have the option of running a farm. I would. I would not marry someone to be my slave though. I would totally pay them.

  9. I think obviously, feminism has fought some real evils in society that were preventing women from being equa, but it’s also (because of the leaders who founded it) destroyed many of the morals and values of our country. Most women who identify themselves as feminist of course, don’t agree with much of what the leaders of the movement really said… there are so many distasteful quotes about even a good marriage being “slavery,” about stay at home moms being idiots and a drudge on society, and many many quotes against masculinity and men in general

    Feminism today is fighting stupid battles like getting Toys R Us to not have a boys or girls section, taking urinals out of all male bathrooms (becasue it apparently offends these women that men can stand and piss – they want it to be “equal”), and trying to create fake studies showing that fathers are no longer important.

    Again, most women that identify with feminism don’t feel those same things, however, that doesn’t negate the costly affects to society that feminism (as a movement) has and is continuing to do. Since I have boys, I’m very aware of how unequal things have now become – for men! And yes, it did start with angry bitchy women who wrote some of the most ugly pieces of writing and started this movement. Women should be equal, yes! But men shouldn’t have to “pay” for that by now being valued less.

  10. I think men and women who mimic them are both on the wrong side of evolution. Women who live up to their gender’s calling should be the war chiefs and in other positions equal in all respects (or a bit above) to the men . . . because we men have proven to be without a doubt not up the calling . . .

    A real women is a sight to behold . . . puffed up with fakery in order to please men? sad.

  11. Never would I want to go back to the days when I was paid less for doing the same job as a man or had to take the stairs because of the sexual harassment I ran into in the elevators or having to pay for all my own secondary education myself because the families’ savings went to the boy’s education. I am very grateful to the feminist movement for a lot of things. But can we be honest about something here? Feminism has not resulted in an across-the-board success.

    My daughters and daughters-in-law are all well-educated professional women, but they live with constant exhaustion. I know many more women who hate their jobs, but they have no option but to work to make the rich richer. The right of individuals of both genders to follow a rewarding personal career has come at the expense of children who spend 22 hours of their day (including sleep time) away from their parents and millions of women who find themselves chained to drudge jobs as unrewarding as farm and housework – but now they are also in crushing financial and time debt. You can find ways to borrow more money, but there is no application to fill out for more time. It is much more difficult to live on one income than it used to be. Economics -competition- demand. Expenses rise to meet income. Because of the time debt-load there are also fewer people to help family and neighbours in time of need.

    For example, I know of a young family that experienced tough times.The mom came down with a treatable form of cancer whilst pregnant. The baby was delivered early and the year-long treatment began (which involved long periods of isolation). Here’s the problem: in the entire extended family and amongst friends there was not one person who could care for a premature baby without losing their own health benefits or necessary income -including the daddy. They finally found an aunt by marriage in Canada who was willing to help (and even with insurance the couple now owes over a million dollars in debt.)

    Somehow we have lost the concept of voluntarily caring for community in the emphasis on individual personal satisfaction. Who is free to care for the young, the old, the infirm? Yes, extending loving care and kindness should be by choice and not assigned by gender, but sometimes our definition of success needs to be refined.

  12. Kenneth another issue in all of this that needs saying is that wars caused women working outside the home as much as industrialization did — and both industrialization and war (up until modern times, perhaps, but even then I’d argue the same now) were man-created. When the entirely male governments of WWI and WWII sent all the hale and hearty men off to fight, women were forced to move in to fill a lot of the gaps. So ironically it could be argued that men are the reason women got used to working outside of the home in the first place.

  13. Hello, Ken! Good Article. …As I started reading it, and read Your quote of Your Coffee companion, felt quite a bit irritated indeed. These kinds of statements can only be made men whose brains got washed away at their first bath!

    Women HAVE been treated as slaves, much before the Industrialization, (as We see in the Dear Bible!), and wrongly so.

    The Reality is that Women have Contributed cent for cent Equally for the Progress of Mankind. This HAS to be Appreciated. 🙂

  14. Kenneth, I think that the condition of western culture, or any culture at that, isn’t ruined (or not) simply by gender roles, or feminism. And when it comes to divorce, I hear what you’re saying about the whole ‘needing’ thing and all, but I also think it comes down to principles and values. What does it truly mean to be married? What does it truly mean to love? Is love just a feeling? Doesn’t it suggest commitment as well? What about those that are married, not because of ‘love’, but by arranged marriage? An old colleague of mine was married like that. She once told me that one ‘learns to love’. I totally agree. Like when I made the decision to marry my husband, I did it apart from feelings. I knew that, as a strong feeler, I needed to make my decision apart from feelings. I made it purely by logic and choice. Feelings come and go. Does that mean that love comes and goes? I’ve had some pretty heavy ‘divorce-worthy’ fights with my hubby, but I made a choice that doesn’t involve just me. Sooooo, I think these issues go a lot deeper than just this or that. And, although each case is individual and unique, these issue goes deeper. Just saying.
    🙂

  15. Great topic. I have to point out because I am not sure if it was on purpose or an error. You start the conversation with a question “Feminists have destroyed the Western Culture…. Really ????”

    Then you end with the question “Has feminization ruined Western Culture?” two very different questions though they are related.

    Here is my thought as conservative man who is not fond of feminism of today. The original feminist I am for. Women should not be discriminated against in pay or ability to get a job. They should be able to vote and they should be thought of as equal to men. Not better not worse equal. I think that women and men alike should get paid according to their skill level at the work they do.

    My mother was the first women in her industry back in 1970 after my mom and dad divorced. I was all of two years old. She got a job selling Freight services for a freight company. When she was interviewed the guy was very blunt with her and she was very persistent. He said truckers are not known for talking politely for those who are older you will remember that in those days men talked one way with each other and another way around women. He asked her if she could work like a man. She assured him she could. She was wrong. She ended up working better then men. She became the best they had and made a good career in the freight industry over her life.

    I am all for the feminism that says everyone deserves equal opportunity. Today though for the most part it is there. Feminist are not fighting for equal job opportunities or equal education opportunities. In fact today more women are going to college then men and now we have the opposite problem of what we once had.

    I think feminist of today mostly do not understand the real struggle. The struggle my mom went through and the struggle our family went through because of it. I think that is sad. I hate seeing these young girls fighting for feminist ideals such as free birth control. Get a job and buy it. I have no problem with it being available but purchase it. The old feminist that still live are largely ashamed of the degradation of the cause. The current feminist seem to forget what it meant for a women to break into the work place or have their voice heard in the political sphere. Even churches today have women ministers. When I was young that was almost unheard of. Women have come a long way but most of the women I know today quit aligning themselves with feminist because today’s feminist went off the deep end and have yet to come back up.

    My thoughts. Now that being said No the original feminism only strengthened the Union not hurt it. Today’s feminist hurt it.

    I think though there is a strong feminization of our culture and I think that hurts our Union and our Western Culture. People should allow men and women to have differences and not fight those. They should mix not all blend into the same. Allow boys to be boys and girls to be girls. The last of my three kids is graduating high school this year and I have seen first hand how feminization has had its affect on him.

    I will stop there. I think that is a whole different topic.

    • Curiam, I agree with some of what you say, and your mom sounds like an amazing woman. Yes, there are women who have gone overboard and I agree that the word “feminist” is considered by many now to be an ugly word. That said, I must disagree with two of your points.

      With regard to birth control, it sounds like you think women must pay for it. I hope you meant it should be paid for, period, and that men and women should share the cost. Free condoms are made available at clinics so people who want to mess around and not catch STDs can get these, and typically men are still more comfortable taking condoms in public than women are, though this is changing. Still, only a woman can get pregnant and I personally would not want to rely on condoms to prevent pregnancy as I know several people who got pregnant that way. So for oral birth control (or diaphragms, which are even more money to output at once), I think women typically foot the bill alone unless ina marriage where they are being supported financially.

      The other point I disagree with is when you say things have swung the other way. I agree that on television sitcoms and in commercials men are now portrayed as bumbling buffoons as women once were — and this should not happen for either gender. Apart from that though, I do not agree at all. Your point about more women going to college than men — it would be unfair if those colleges were preventing men from going, or if it was more expensive for men to go, or if women got in because of their looks or something. The truth, painful as it may be (and I have a son, so I do not think I am on an opposing team or anything), is that women either work harder to get in or make better grades by nature. Men may find this a bitter pill after centuries where education was deprived women (and the poor), but perhaps the truth is that in general, women are even more suited to study than men ever were. Whether it has something to do with the ability to focus, discipline, thought processing, who can say? And of course there may be fields that come more naturally to either gender (not for social reasons but by virtue of the ways our brains work differently). But if more women are in schools (or jobs) than men, the reason is NOT oppression. And women don’t get equal pay at all levels and in all fields. It is proven on average we still earn less, though of course in city jobs, union jobs, etc., this does not happen. It’s a different thing among executives, retail and service-industry employees of small businesses, illegals and so on. Women especially make less in countries across the globe that are not first-world Westernized.

    • I agree that men should also pay their part. I have no problem with free birth control as long as the government is not the one giving it out. If a private organization (with out government money) wants to give out free birth control then I am fine with that.

      As for the education issue some of what you say is correct. Men and women alike are allowed to go to college. As they have both been allowed to for hundreds of years now. The problem has not been that women could not go to college but that they did not want and that was for many reasons. Two hundred years ago very few folks had even a secondary education little alone a college education. Money was usually the largest factor and one of the other factors was roles. Men and women had different roles. When the US started the first free school system in the world both men and women alike were encouraged to come. After some time most folks did attend some schooling though for a while most did not attend secondary school. Even fewer attended college (of which women were there). There were colleges that accepted only men and ones that accepted only women. That was largely due to the concept of morality more then anything.

      In the twentieth century through numerous studies to determine why women were dropping out of secondary education at much higher rates then men they came to the conclusion that men and women (in general) learn through different methods and the decks were stacked in favor of men. This made women not like school which lead the misconception that men were smarter. The truth is they learn different.

      After this came to light then there was a fight in the education circles to change things. Feminist wanted to change education so that women had a better chance of getting a good education (rightly so). This took time but the transition largely took place in the 70’s. Once the 80’s hit most of our education system was already transformed and you could read articles of who are educated women going to marry? It was already obvious that the change has had the same affect on men that women once experienced. In fact one of the top feminist who fought for fixing education for women is now fighting to fix it for men as well. (I can’t remember her name). The damage to mens education is very real and by many not understood because they do not realize how it was previously.

      I am sadden that to fix what was wrong for women they destroyed what worked for men. This is one of the reasons that gender specific secondary education worked so well. They taught to their class. This was hated but is now I think having a resurgence. There are ways to handle this problem with out sacrificing either gender. But that discussion is for another post. In fact there are whole books on it.

      As for the less pay you are correct about non first world countries but we can only fight where we are. As for the US the math they use for determining gender pay is way to complicated. I do not wish to get into it here but there is a reason there has been no successful lawsuit in a long time for this. It is a red herring. It did happen but in legal jobs effectively does not happen now.

      I would like to see evidence if it is around today. By evidence I am not thinking of a study done but of actual case studies that are post year 2000.

  16. You have good points.
    What always keep me astonished, why people want to keep up a society/life/understanding what has always been full of pain, agony and suffering, really far from any shade of an ideal world.
    Also, it is interesting, how people live with a separate purse and a wallet, instead of uniting, sharing, experiencing the joy of giving and helping (others) together, and experiencing the gratitude when there is a downhill in their life of maturation, growing.
    In a way, it seems, instead of changing internally, growing mutually, people nowadays tend to change their partners more often than their underwear…
    At last, all these great technology, in every field of life has been given, yet, still the internal, meaningful change for the benefit of each other is only to be hoped to happen in the unseen future…

  17. My mind flashes back to the early 70’s regarding one married couple. The wife worked for the telephone company, and her spouse was literally the “househusband”. He enjoyed all the stay-at-home domestic duties– housecleaning, cooking, getting the kids off to school– in addition to the chores most associated with men, such as plumbing repairs and car problems. And they seemed quite happy with their relationship. Hey, if it works…

  18. I believe that feminism was a good thing as you addressed in your post regarding our rights as a human being. It also gave us the power to say “no I don’t want anymore children, I can barely feed the ones I got, I want contraception! ” However today’s “neo-feminism” is damaging. I see a lot of women belittling and abusing men, they even make sitcoms of it. This is unfair and women should be called out for it, because god knows men would be if they pulled half the crap that some women do! As in regards to us taking over jobs, I worked as an electrician, and ya, I was taking away a job from a man. I understood that. It actually made me have a deeper respect for what men sacrifice for their families. I currently farm with my husband and sometimes I feel like I should be doing more than housewife duties and farm chores and raising kids, but when I tell him this, he says everything would suffer if I went away to work. That everyone including animals depend on me being here for them, and it is true when I think of my place as a farm wife. I think for women who live in the city there isn’t anything stopping you from exploring your talents or furthering your education, but if you are able to be home to raise kids and run a house, I think that it helps you to better observe and strengthen the family. I understand that this isn’t possible for a lot of people due to finances, or just wanting to choose to have a career, so I understand families are doing best. I should mention that it doesn’t only have to be the women who can be house”wives” men do an excellent job too and can provide all the nurturing any woman could. I guess when it comes to the sexes I think we all understand our biological needs to either nest or provide whether male or female. And that we should treat people as people and look past gender.

  19. The suppression of women in society by religion and men in power has been around since the rise of the Roman Empire who did not see or treat women as equals.
    Pre-Roman empire the Celts treated women with equal and they held leadership positions, in fact the Celtic queen Boudica in 25 AD ruled most of what is now Germany and was the biggest enemy of Rome. The Roman would not even recognize or deal with her because she was a woman. Once eventually defeated the Celts were labelled for evermore as ‘barbarians’ and the suppression of women began, and women are still fighting for equality.

  20. It’s simple, breast were made for feeding a baby and so it continues that a child wants to be reared by its parents and not Government Institutions or corporations. There is no secret behind the demise of western culture and soon enough, it will destroy itself due to ONE gender (women) becoming like men. A new following called MGTOW has been in existence with baby boomer men for a long time because of GRAVE risks in being with our women. Younger men are in this movement whether stated or not by merely not becoming involved with unnatural controlling women who want power at home and in the workplace; they are succeeding and so breaking natural laws will continue to drive the west into an inescapable abyss. It always stuns me at how the most stunned people are those with academic criteria.

Trackbacks

  1. “Feminists have destroyed Western Culture”…REALLY???My Misplaced Life | My Misplaced Life
%d bloggers like this: